Posts by Jonathan Drake

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

Second, if you say a Christian isn't following the bible as you interpret it then it's reasonable to take that as meaning they are not as "real" a Christian as someone that you believe follows your interpretation of it more closely.

This potion of your post perfectly encapsulates my annoyance with this thread. I said what I said, and it was TWISTED to mean I think Christians are fake even thoug I never said that. This is how my words, despite not being what it's claimed they were, have been interpreted.

the same has been done to the Quran in this thread. It's actual words are being interpreted to mean something other than what they say. My goal has been to point out that it doesn't say this or that. Just like right now, I'm telling you, I've never said any Christians are fake.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

@myelaine

i apologize. In my aggravation I let my tongue get ahead of me, it's uncharacteristic of me to make blanket statements like that, I'm sorry.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

I think you are confusing different things there. They can be both sincere but misguided - it's not one or the other.
There isn't one religion that has a 100% clear holy text that isn't open to some interpretation. It's why the text is almost irrelevant - all that matters is what they chose to say and do. The closer that is to the text then the more confident we can be that their beliefs are influenced by the text but they can chose to believe any mumbo jumbo.

100% agree with this. That's exactly my point, I never said they were fake. i would never say this. Anyone striving to be Christian is trying to understand God regardless of if I agree with their method or not. Thus I would never say they are fake. It's not my place. So saying I have said this, is slander. I did not.

In fact, this short text is very much the point ive been trying to make in almost every post I've made in this thread.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

Viv: would you mind NOT telling other people what they think and why? They (we) are perfectly capable of explaining it ourselves.

Hypocrite.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
- Susan B. Anthony

Annnnnd:

JD: I do not just say they mean whatever I want, because if I did that I'd still be a JW and I am not.

Hmmmmm....

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

Show me where I said other Christians are fake Christians? I said they don't listen to their own book, not that they were insincere.

Youre still ill putting words in my mouth. I can't even begin to explain how much I dislike you. Please stop slandering me and concocting your nonsense.

26

Jesus died for US...technically

by enigma1863 in

for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and then took him back.

that's not love, its a big legal loophole.

people have technically died in the past, and by the standards of diagnosing death in bible times you could definitely beat 48 hrs and return.

Jonathan Drake

Good points. I was engrossed in another thread earlier. I'll still look into this though, see what the rest of the New Testament says. It COULD be that this is only referring to Jesus IN PERSON. Possibly not though. I'll get out the strongs concordance and see what I can find.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

You are the same an every other preaching christian.

Wrong. Every other christian would tell you to enjoy hell and say hi to a relative they hate. Feel free to review my posts and reach the proper conclusion of what I actually did and said, because I feel preaching is wrong, and I feel saying such things as they would to you now is wrong. I've said so many times across this board.

just because I will not allow a statement to go uncorrected doesn't mean I care whether or not the person accepts the reality of what the book says. I positioned the verses I did expecting there to be rebuttal, but ultimately how a person feels about it is up to them. I have not pressed my views on anyone and in fact took steps to avoid it. I've only responded with verse quotation. If you think it says something other than the words on the page that's your call, and you might be right. I just won't agree, and I have no idea how some who have posted here have reached the conclusions they have - but it's their conclusion to reach.

With all due respect to all of you, if you don't want to hear an opposing view, then keep yours to yourself. Not everyone will agree with you, and you just have to deal with it.

i don't agree with cofty nor does cofty with me. And I'm okay with that, it's the nature of people. Same with Simon. But viv, you do in fact back pedal and reverse yiur stand and say people said things they didn't and that you didn't when you did and it's exhausting and aggravating. So let's you and I just stay away from each other once it is clear we cannot agree- and here we will not.

I did not try to tell anyone what any verse I quoted means, I quoted it and it spoke for itself. I do not appreciate being slandered as interpreting scriptures my own way as I do not do this - I take them as they are and put a lot of effort into placing them in their proper context to understand their cultural references and the events that surrounded them. I do not just say they mean whatever I want, because if I did that I'd still be a JW and I am not.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

according to you

Wrong. im not doing this with you again. Your putting words in my mouth, I positioned the verses TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I have no idea how many more times I'll have to say this to people before it is actually understood. Think what you want about them, I don't care, and convincing you of any particular view isn't my job or desire. Continuing to respond and convince me, however, of something IS preaching, which I have not done.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

You are promoting your version of Jesus. Every Christian does that. You are picking the parts you like and ignoring the rest and telling us they've got it all wrong while telling us your version is right. That's pretty much exactly what Christianity is...

I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore, but I will respond to this. I have not promoted any view of Jesus except specifically, word for word, what the bible and Quran say about him. I did not interpret it to mean anything, I did not ignore anything it says. I positioned a scripture to speak for itself. If you think the scripture is saying something other than it's words do, we disagree and I don't mind that. But as I've said, I don't care whether any of you believe it, and getting you to is not my responsibility. But where I see the verses being positioned incorrectly, I will put them back in context saying what they are truly saying. Whether you accept that the book disagrees with your preconceived ideas, as well as the majority of the faith claiming the book as its own - is not my concern. I only care about representing the text as saying what it does so that an informed decision is made, if you still think it says something it doesn't in the face of word for word proof of otherwise - that's fine. I don't care.

26

Jesus died for US...technically

by enigma1863 in

for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and then took him back.

that's not love, its a big legal loophole.

people have technically died in the past, and by the standards of diagnosing death in bible times you could definitely beat 48 hrs and return.

Jonathan Drake

The verses in the bible don't necessarily state you have to believe in Christ to be saved that I can recall. It does say that if you confess faith in him you will be saved, but that doesn't necessarily mean we can assume if you don't you will die. The judgement is left up to christ to determine if the person is good and righteous.

Ill have to research this to see what I can find, but off the top of my head I can think of no scripture that says if you don't believe in Christ this automatically means death. I'm fairly certain that's a religious invention because the bible does say christs blood bought everyone whether they believe or not, so I think the difference would be if you knew what the bible says and denied it because you enjoy being a bad person. But how many people actually look for reasons to do bad stuff because they enjoy it?